Sunday, May 07, 2006

Private Sunday Morning: On the Oct 29th List = Peta de Aztlan

Sunday Morning ~ Hola Scott ~ I agree. The list has gone astray, then, there is the HR4437 List that I cannot respond to because of my Yahoo program or some shit, but I can get Emails from it. 
 
There are two local immigrnt rights groups involved in activities that happen here in Sacramento, one with CAULI or something and the Al Rojas Group with already some animosity between the two of them.
 
The List program itself is screwed and it has become kind of a rant by Dan E. Remember: there was no solid follow-up to the Oct 29th Event as there should of been.
 
Recall: I got the Immgrant-Rights-Agenda Group going after the Oct 29th Event.
 
Immigrant-Rights-Agenda Home Page
 
There is a real lack of cohesion. bad leadership and many character defects of some of the players involved. Too many chiefs and not enough damn warriors! Either people do not lead, mislead or do not want others to lead in terms of accepting their leadership. Once again. there is no strong structured political vehicle.
 
Wonder why I  have been working on a volunteer basis with CASA ~ a Christian recovery group at the local Salvation Army Homeless Shelter ~ for aronnd 9 years as part of what I consider my Christian ministry. In the real world in real life I work with homeless addicts strictly on a volunteer basis as I would probably get fired otherwise!! I speak of what I call PROGRESSIVE RECOVERY!
 
CASA 12-Steps Program Blog
 
Of course, to me Jesus Christ was a radical revolutionary in his own way who fought with what he had and who he had at the time, but that's another story.
 
Being into recovery from dope/booze and stuff has helped me to see the fucked-ups ways of other at a glance. I ain't judging, I'm just saying.
 
Don't let Dan E's shadow fall on me! I wrote an Email back after you quit that criticized him about his foul usage of the term 'retarded', especially because I have a younger brother who has been severely retarded since he was a baby because of brain damage fever from TB Meingitis.
 
Let us keep in touch.
 
Let's work together on what we can and move on!
 
I can call FREE INSIDE THE USA on my Cell Phone:
916/ 968-1023
 
Join Native Resistance!
Peter S. Lopez ~aka Peta
Sacramento, California, USA
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Re: FYI Re: Brother Scott: The Oct 29th List is to Promote Immigrant Rights!
Scott Campbell <soupshow@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
 
Thanks for your email.  I feel like my decision to leave was best.  I appreciate no one moderates or controls the list, but I think that there are certain times when someone oversteps the bounds of civility and needs to be checked.  For me, that line was crossed when Dan called Dean - someone with cerebral palsy and who has had a stroke - a retard. 
 
I've been frustrated with the list since after Oct. 29 and increasingly with Dan's domination of the list and using it as he platform to rant about anything he feels like he should rant about.  He appears to be a very defensive person and unwilling to listen to nuance, let alone criticism, so to spare myself further alienation in an already alienating world, I've decided to leave.
 
Take care and good luck to all of you in Sacto.  Keep up the struggle!
 
scott
 
----- Original Message -----
Cc: SCOTT
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: FYI Re: Brother Scott: The Oct 29th List is to Promote Immigrant Rights!

"Peter S. Lopez de Aztlan" <sacranative@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hola Angry White Kid Scott: I guess I aint' been keeping up with my List Emails. No one person really speaks for this list. Certanly not Dan E. and there is no real moderator.
That is part of why I like it... kind of free-form and formless.

The focus should still primariy be about Immigrant Rights and working together despite any minor differences. We should not lump people together nor split ideological hairs. Who will be Solomon-like and split the baby in two?
 
I always bitched about this List Group and its flaws like not being able to edit how one receives Emails from it or easily access archives but it is what it is, but those are mechanics.

The divisive dynamics going on here between you two is better left offlist. It is negative and divisive, though, the truth will help set us free! I guess it needed to be thrown up... now who will clean up the mess?

 
I myself got plenty of character defects, shortcomings and flaws so if you of your need any I got some to spare. Light a candle!
 
I like this list and it is a good way to kind of keep in contact with some Sacra gente online. It is what it is and ain't what it ain't.
You have my Email.
 
I know you will continue to work in the People's War of Life for Life whatever happens. Indeed, these are times that challenge our human souls.
 
Blessings and Prayers ~
Peter S. Lopez ~aka Peta
Sacramento, California, USA
cc IRA
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzapata 
Re: OCT29: re this retard troublemaker Tuckerman:
Scott Campbell <soupshow@hotmail.com> wrote:
I've been biting my tongue hoping the one-man Dean-bashing fest would peeter out, but instead I see it's just grown to encompass all from the Bay Area. 
 
Dean is a good guy.  Dan, you appear to be so engulfed by your inexplicable, inate dislike for him that you can only attack him and twist what he says and through that come to irrational conclusions.  And you calling him "retard" is just atrocious.  If this was my list, you'd be gone just for that one comment.  But it's not, so I'll kindly depart it instead.  It appears to not really be serving any purpose but to rant about unrelated matters - certainly no organizing is occuring on it.  Hope all of you out there is cyber world do well. 
 
I would like to address this claim:
 
"The Oct29 action would have gone better if you and your anarchist rowdies had stayed home. But you, Ms Crusty & even Scott conned everybody into believing we could trust you to behave & not start trouble. As a group, you made an agreement on the guidelines for the action but then you broke your word and hijacked the whole event.
 
"Actually, your Bay Area anarchist crowd wound up playing the role of provocateurs, enabling the media to spin the action as the work of a bunch of crazies."
 
How did we con people?  What agreement on "guidelines" did we make?  How did we "hijack" the event?  Because we refused to tell people what they could and couldn't do?  Because most people wanted to stay in front of the MMP, or some - god forbid - pushed a fence?  I feel the event was a success, not without its faults, but it went well.  But that was six months ago.  What's your deal?  How funny that you can write these militant emails, condemn wimpy Democrats and labor leaders, and in the same breath turn around and condemn any behavior you deem "provocative."
 
Regardless, such times have passed.  Take care, all.  You know where you can reach me. 
 
scott
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 10:40 AM
Subject: OCT29: re this retard troublemaker Tuckerman:

You, my man, are a simpleton. As well as a phony who fools  himself that he understands things he's never investigated. "No Investigation, No Right To Speak".
 
What, you think there aren't any "big Jewish donors"? Are  you crazy? This is not a radical fantasy. This is stuff that's on file with the FPPC, that's reported by the NYTimes & the Washpost. But to mention it bothers you, which shows where you're at: "Don't you dare attack my superrich co-victims".
 
When did I ever lie to you? Well, I have to admit, I did restrain myself from saying what I really thought of you and your smartass comments; is that what you had in mind?
 
How can you say West & Lerner are "not enemies" & then claim you aren't defending them? This will all come out when we get through checking out who W&L align themselves with, and the role their pals are playing in this Immigrant Rts movement. Cherchez les Democratic Socialists of America.
 
How the fuck can you claim to know anything about the Palestine/"isreal" problem if you've never bothered to familiarize yourself with the UN Resolutions that created the Zionist state in the first place? Oh these loudmouth ignoramuses.
 
This is the same old Zionist bullshit: calling people who point out the facts "anti-semitic". hohum.
 
Your problem is you think all non-jews have to kiss your ass. Sorry, I tried to cut you all the slack I could, but them days are gone.
 
A real "antisemite" is one who says negative things about Jews in general, but phonies like you try to con people into thinking if I don't kiss your ass, if I don't lean over backwards to make sure everything I say is Politically Correct & wouldn't offend Mier Kahane, I'm a nazi.
 
What is the actual meaning of my remark "wake up and smell" the sacramental wine? Just that: wake up and realize you are living in a world of priest-created mythology.
 
Yes, be glad I don't live where you live, because I'd fuck up your little dreamworld.
 
I'm so glad you aren't going to get in my face anymore, because it saves me from having to unsub from this list & put everybody but you on another list.
 
But as of now I am no longer going to bend over backwards to tolerate your ignorant boorishness. From the first emails exchanged about Oct 29 you've been insulting me directly and personally, but I tried to cool it in the interests of a unified action vs Gilchrist et al. Which I now see was a mistake.
 
The Oct29 action would have gone better if you and your anarchist rowdies had stayed home. But you, Ms Crusty & even Scott conned everybody into believing we could trust you to behave & not start trouble. As a group, you made an agreement on the guidelines for the action but then you broke your word and hijacked the whole event.
Actually, your Bay Area anarchist crowd wound up playing the role of provocateurs, enabling the media to spin the action as the work of a bunch of crazies.
 
I have to do some self criticizing: I talked as many activists as I could into participating by telling them "Oh no, these Anarchists aren't the Black Bloc type, these are intelligent, reasonable people." 
 
What a dummy I was. I apologize to all the people I gave this incorrect information to. What can I say? I'm sorry.
 
But I've learned my lesson now: it won't happen again.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: OCT29: Re: Mr T's comments re my comments re Tikkun mag

You my man are an anti-semite and misconstrue what i said. Read this garbage you write. "Wake up and smell the Manishevitz." (i believe my spelling is correct.) "big Jewish donors". And then read his misquotes from me: I never defended Cornell West or Rabbi Lerner. I just said they were not an enemy. I didn't say i don't support the Un resolutions, I said i haven't read them completely that i won't say i support them, altho i did say watch out for the UN. I think adding Chomsky shows how sleazy you can get. Prof. C's views are way different than Lerner's and West's and you put him into the mix. I think after having called you a lying sleazy anti-semite, i won't write you anymore. I will even let you answer this without answering you. Boy am i glad you live in Sacrmaernto.
On May 1, 2006, at 7:15 PM, Dan Elliott wrote:

Loyalty Oath? what slanderous bullshit, comparing my effort to get to the truth with McCarthyism.

 
All I'm trying to do, is determine what side you are on. "Who are our friends, and who are our enemies". You seem to have an affinity for phonies, claiming to be a super-radical too pure for the UN Resolutions the Palestinians cling to through thick and thin.

 
You can't claim to recognize & support the Right of Return, and then turn around and defend those who attack it. Your position seems to be that it makes no diff. what somebody supports or doesn't, only that they haven't done anything to YOU lately so they must be okay.

 
No no no. It won't wash. these people, these Lerner's/Chomskys/CornelW's are Pernicious! Snakes in the Grass!!

 
They are a large part of the reason this antiIraqwar "Movement" hasn't accomplished a thing: all the existing avenues for protest activity are blocked by these Zionist-friendly elements:UFPJ, PDA, the Demogreens who bought the bullshit that Nader cost Gore the election and who still won't admit urging people to vote for Kerry was a mistake. Code Pink, Win Without War: these people are great at copping headlines but none of them want to cut the umbilical to the big Jewish donors...

 
But I can't spend anymore of my precious time drawing you a picture. God you manage to waste a lot of my time.

 
Like I said, go back, you've turned into a oneway street. The icefloe you currently occupy is melting fast and will soon become untenable.

 
Even a number of Liberals now admit the Zionist Emperor is doing the full monty, but here's super-revolutionary Dean, with his head stuck in the same old place.

 
Hohum. Time to wake up  & smell the Manishewitz.

----- Original Message -----
From: Dean Tuckerman
To: oct29@deliberate.com
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: OCT29: Re: Mr T's comments re my comments re Tikkun mag

I will answer you in no uncertain terms, altho this feels like loyalty oath type questioning.
On Apr 30, 2006, at 10:26 AM, Dan Elliott wrote


 
 
Who said anything about "every union bureaucrat"? I mentioned Sweeney and Sternie, who are the two most important leaders of Organized Labor. If you don't think their showing up to publicly kiss Richard Perle's ass is significant, you need to have your head examined.
 
It is NOT a question of this or that policy of the the Zionist Entity: plenty of Zionists and plenty of Israelis severely criticize the Zionist government every day. It IS a question of the nature of the Zionist STATE.
 
I am an anarchist. I am against every state. Are you? And i don't believe the Israeli state has a right to exist. You however are mixing apples and oranges. I agree with you about the fundamentalism (sic) of Israeli state apartheid. I support freedom for Palestinians wherever they want to live including anywhere in what is sometimes called "Israel proper". I don't believe that Israelis or Zionists control U.S. foreign or domestic policy. You have the tail (an ugly apartheid tail) wagging the dog (the U.S.-an ugly oppressive imperialist nation-state). And when you claim that the Zionists/Jews run the U.$., you are leaving the non-Jewish members of the U.S. off the hook, giving them a free ride. You got to know who the enemy is before you can defeat them. More below.

"Isreal" is fundamentally a racist Apartheid State, an anachronistic abomination which, now that Apartheid South Africa has been at least partly transformed, is at the top of humanity's agenda: "Israel" delendi est.
 
Lerner and Cornball deny the Palestinian Right of Return; therefore they are Zionists. If you accept the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, you can't accept Zionism.
 
So let me ask you, Mr Tuckerman: Do you support the Palestinian Right of Return?
Yes unequivocally.


 
Al-Awda is an organization/coalition and i don't support organizations until i study their stands on questions and what their about in their entirety and i have not done this with Al-Awda.

I generally don't base my politics on UN resolutions especially ones i have not read in their entirety. I feel the United NATIONS, an organization of oppressor nation-states should not be the ones running the world or making decisions for the people of Palestine.
Only when they are doing the work of the enemy are they the enemy. It's much more nuanced than you think. I could call you an enemy (Enemy?) because you are allowing the non-Jewish members of the ruling class off the hook, but that's not my game.


And you are defending these enemies, so what does that make you?
 
"Go Back, You Are Going The Wrong Way".
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean Tuckerman
To: oct29@deliberate.com
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: OCT29: Re: Mr T's comments re my comments re Tikkun mag

Dan and everybody who's probably bored of this topic by now: I wasn't saying that Lerner + West had the greatest political stance since (put your own poltical heroes here). I happen to think that political line and the arrogance of Rabbi Lerner are BAD. I was saying that they are not my enemies, and should not be the enemies of leftists, and revolutionaries. We have enough real enemies.

And Dan, watching where every union bureaucrat goes to speak may be your idea of fun, but its the day before MayDay.

And Dan i attack Zionism and Israel and support the Palestinians a whole lot. I just think that those peopel who believe that Israel (a tiny country) runs the foreign policy (and now your claiming the doemstic policy) of the most powerful country on the face of the earth (and yes i know Jeffrey Blankfort and feel he is wrong too), have something backwards in their thinking.

On Apr 30, 2006, at 8:38 AM, Dan Elliott wrote:


 
But don't take my word for it: why don't you ask Scott Campbell, who may be able to explain it in a way that won't make you defensive?
 
As long as I have your attention, and you have mine, let me clarify something? When I replied to your earlier inquiry about why I was posting reactions to Walt & Mearsheimer, I gave you the short answer. But there is more to it.
 
The SEIU, the UFWA & several other unions affiliated with "Change to Win", the new national labor federation headed by Andy Stern of the SEIU are playing prominent roles in organizing these protests as well as in lobbying against HR4437. I believe the AFLCIO is involved now also.
 
Both Stern and AFL honcho Sweeney are in AIPAC's stable of stooges. Both make the annual trek to the AIPAC convention to take the mike for 90 seconds & grovel for the assembled guests. Both outfits loudly proclaim their support for the Zionist Entity which militarily controls all of Mandate Palestine but keeps half the population of that territory disenfranchised.
 
These facts may or may not be/become significant in the struggle for Immigrant Rights, but it's worth keeping an eye on, wouldn't you say?
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean Tuckerman
To: oct29@deliberate.com
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: OCT29: Re: Mr T's comments re my comments re Tikkun mag

What did you warn me about?
On Apr 29, 2006, at 7:58 PM, Dan Elliott wrote:


 
BTW you have a foul mouth. You try my patience.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean Tuckerman
To: oct29@deliberate.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: OCT29: Re: Mr T's comments re my comments
SNIP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...until the concept of disability disappears and is replaced by a society that is structured to
support everyone's life, relatedness and contribution - until that day my life and opportunities
and the lives of every other person who carries the label 'disabled' depends on the goodwill of
people in the human service system. Goodwill is no substitute for freedom ..."

Judith Snow

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...until the concept of disability disappears and is replaced by a society that is structured to
support everyone's life, relatedness and contribution - until that day my life and opportunities
and the lives of every other person who carries the label 'disabled' depends on the goodwill of
people in the human service system. Goodwill is no substitute for freedom ..."

Judith Snow

Be certain enough to act and to doubt simultaneously.
--Bernardine Dohrn


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