Saturday, May 06, 2006

Re: More Open Thoughts On Online Reactionary Fools = 05-06-06

Saturday Evening ~ Gracias Virginia ~ Thanks for the warnings. I like the Phoenix Group as there are some intelligent folks in it.
I am hip to that tactic of Email miners and online agent provacetaurs who aim to disrupt, divide and distract having
been online in groups for several years now. I am hip to Roth and his website matrix as we Emailed back and forth several times a long time ago, but he took offense. The other fool is a bit more devious and he drifted off. Who knows? They could be lurkers now..

One can never really know who or what is on the other side of a computer screen. Sometimes folks go through mild forms of mood swings. We all have good days and bad days. I have talked to you on the phone before Virginia and you are very bright with a lot of stamina.
I suppose this discussion is part of the nature of a talking-circle but let us not get all distracted and obesesed behind it. After all, that is what such reactionary fools would want us to waste our time on and time is sacred.
Online reactionary fools have access to Internet Power but they lack a cohesive and coherent set of ethical humane principles.
Sometimes folks in a group can disagree, get mad, sulk and harbor recentments, but that is not the same as a conscious
reactionary fool spreading seeds of deception.
I recommend you write a full report and centralize it all in one blog posting on one of your blogs so people can just be linked to it as this come up with the direct URL. Got the idea? Maybe you have done so already.
Read and spread the message at  We are all ONE, practice the law of one.
"Real truth is always subversive." ~ Zdenek Urbanek
You can update information on it. Expose these evil tricksters. I think of small pox virus on blankets to keep the natives warm.
Sometimes we can just agree to disagree on a minor matter as long as we have the common agenda of principled support for humane rights in general. I come from a large blood family and sometimes we have argued and fought, but pity the fool who comes in between us and causes real harm.
Thus, we should be careful not to lightly label people and wage cyber struggles!
My style is to be honest, open and willing to change. It keeps me from getting stale, stuck and stupid.
If someone joins Talking-Circle and starts getting really reactionary please let the Group Moderator/s know. There is that fine line between freedom of speech and its abuse. Plus, some are ignorant in the sense of not knowing enough about a subject or issue. We can talk about such instances in a Spirit of Solidarity. Then, some are just  stuck on stupid. Stay alert, stay alive!
Please keep in mind the new Group re-focus and
<>+<>Mitakuye Oyasin!<>+<>
Talking-Circle is a Progressive Yahoo Group created to report and discuss humane rights issues with a specific focus on indigenous native peoples in all of the Americas: North, Central and South Americas!
Let us help each other in our Spiritual Growth as humane beings as we struggle together towards total liberation for all natives upon Mother Earth!

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"Virginia S." <> wrote:
Yes, PNAC, part of the New World Order folks infiltrated Phoenix quest. The same guy was on this list -- hank roth -- posting as acryllic in both places. He harvests ALL the members.
I have pointed out how he works to many people, they ignore me to their peril. I have pointed out -- repeatedly -- to no avail either that a common tactic they use is "chain letters" to harvest names AND to make them seem like NICE folks, using Mitake Oyasin and other blessings in their signature lines to make them seem respectable.
Bob Mendelson/Bruce Johston, aka Ayowenta, Whitebuffalo and other manifestations of the same get their racist postings right off Hank Roth's MOSAD New World order site, It took me many months to PROVE and track it to its source.  MULCH IS KILLING YOUR DOGS is one example.  MUSLIMS ARE KILLING THEIR DAUGHERS!  is another.  And then they use a Hallmark kind of sentimentality kind of post to confuse you.
I am trying to save all this posts, strip them together and show the links with the YAHOO! phenomena .. it is all of a piece.
The Minutemen are hand in glove with some of the New Age newsletters too.
It's mindboggling!

Puma Claw <> wrote:
I'm wondering.  Some people just join groups in order to harvest addresses and then leave again.  John Birch, huh?  Damn, that's a rich one.  Ah well, what can I say?  Takes all kinds.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: Online Reactionary Fools + Some Open Thoughts = 05-06-06
Saturday Afternoon ~ Hola Hermana Virginia & ALL T-C Members ~ Something was up with my Moderator Status with Yahoo Groups this morning. At first I only had Member Access to the Management Section as a regular Member not as Owner/Moderator, but I got in another way after doing something else. Strange days...
In fact, Yahoo is getting strange and even has a slice of sinisterness to it.
I recently created a Google Group that I will be working with more in the future, but I always favored Talking-Circle just for checing in and stuff.
I am at Sac City College right now in the Learning Center.
Anyways, this morning, when I finally got into the Moderator Management Section I went into the Members List, tracked him, then deleted him and removed him as a Talking-Circle Member. The fool had three different Emails as a TC Member that had Savefreedom User Name before it with variations.
I will keep my ear out, eye open and got my Puma on the prowl... {got that Bryan?... Bryan? ...kitty kitty kitty.. umm... he might be taking a cat nap}.
Kidding aside, it blew my mind that he would Cc: to the John Birch Group.
Should I ask for Profiles from people in Talking-Circle or let it ride? Who in the hell else is in this Group? Should I open the Members section for all to see? I myself have nothing to hide that could be seen. As you know I am pretty much a straight up Native Resistor of Native Resistance! Plus, I am not unduly paranoid nor do I intend to live out my life inside the United States in mortal fear.
Give me feedback. Put PETA in the Subject Line, but not a lot of little Emails about the same subject in the same vein. Sit down and write an article about it in a Document, re-write it and refine it, then, post it with thoughtfulness.

I get bombarded with Emails and even more so since the Marchas. Spare me!

I can tighten this Group up quick and Monitor posts, but I want it to remain open ended and I do not have the time nor the desire to monitor stuff.
Hell, I am just trying to monitor myself these days and I did NOT get drunk to Celebrate Cinco de Mayo.... though I did indulge... TWO SNICKERS and THREE LITERS OF DIET-PEPSI! What a binge!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remember: all we transmit online and stuff herein is legal and covered by our First Amendment Right, RIght? Or am I wrong? Has the Right subverted our Rights? When will the last Right slip away? Will we get a Red Homeland Security ALERT?!?!+++++++++++
In relation to the resurgence of the Immigrant Rights Movement, I was expecting for there to be a bigger backlash from reactinary right-wing elements that there has been so far. Of course, Lou Dobbs is a racist idiot.
I do not mean negative reaciton only by racist White folks, but including reactinary Hispanic types and other wanna-bees.
Many Whites have enough common sense to know that a quick open attack on Mexican immigrants in public would be seen a an automatic racist knee-jerk reaction.
All this as a result of the major big successes of the recent Immigrant Rights Rallys and Marches than there have been on March 25, April 10 and this last May 1st. It ain't all over yet I assure you.
In fact, I would not be surprised if the next one, whenever it is, is sabotaged by straight out physical violence against the Marchers by neo-fascist foes, then, there could be righteous self-defense by the marchers and the whole situation escalating from there This could discredit the whole Movimiento. play into the hands of the Bush Regime and a lot of the Raza-Latino leadership are fully aware of the social-racial dynamics going on these days.
A lot of the Immigrant Rights leadership comes from the L.A. area and they are waiting to see what the U.S. Congress will come up with in terms of legal immigration reform and legislation. So a lot of us are just laying low in the bushes.
Try to watch Democracy Now! on a regular basis if you can get it. It is on the radio too!
Historically, notice that Raza-Latinos have not ever really engaged in any spontaneous riots in the past on a large scale other than the Zoot Suits riots that were instigated by Navy sailors at the time. Although, there have been some active participation when Black ghetto riots broke out primarily involving our Black Brothers and Sisters, especially the last Big Watts Riot. Hey, we needed Pampers too!
As a rule, descendants of the Mexico Revolution will not riot but they will wage revolutionary armed struggle Let there be no illusions.
Most people nowadays have learned the fruitlessness of street riots and know that it is us who get injured the most. Sometimes people have been so oppressed and so repressed for so long that small-scale riots can and do break out after decades of being caged in cruel social environs.
I believe many Mexican illegal immigrants, in a true technical sense, came out of the shadows because they saw the set up coming down from the Bush administration and its direct and indirect attacks on Middle Eastern peoples.
It has not escaped our attention, 'our' meaning here Raza-Latino People, that there are striking common physical similiarties between Middle-Eastern people of Iraq, Iran and thereabouts and Latinos.
I suspect that it is in the 'national security' interests of the PTB to try to pump up anti-Middle Eastern hysteria. Have you noticed how they blame any kind of Iraqi insurgent resistance on those wily wily at-Qaida terrorists?!?.
Mexicans are not stupid, we can play stupid like we no speakie Ing-lish but we have been stupid. We are a quiet, patient and shrewd people.

Plus, many Mexicans have a lot of stamina and cab outwork many others. This is not due to just DNA genes, but after centuries of toil under hot suns this has been our inheritance. Love of family and Dios are primary motivations
Keep in mind that the majority of real Mexicans are at least part indigenous natives, though not necessarily members of a certified Native-American tribe.
You would have to know the true history of Aztlan. My great-great grandfather on my Father's side was a Yaqui Chief in Sonora, Mexico of a Yaqui tribe that was never conquered by the Spaniards. We're durable.
Those who I term La Raza Cosmica have always been here since man had a memory and more anthropological research has been done that questions old accepted Euro-American ideas about where life originated. We know that we did not all come from Africa or travel here across the Bering Straits.
As rule, most thinking Chicanos and Mexicanos KNOW that the U.S. Southwest was once about half of what was then Mexico. So we are not even talking about mere reparations here. There have been great historical wrongs that have been committed against the original peoples of these lands that we call Aztlan or 'Our Land'. We are not even talking about the instant violation of the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. It has not escaped our purview how so many Treaties between the U.S. Government and Native-American 'nations' have been routinely  violated. We are not naive.
My primary solution in these times for a solvent sane solution to the whole immigration question is a blanket unconditional amnesty for those who are already here. Keep in mind that there has never ever been a past parallel situation that brings up this question in our specfific historical circumstances before in all of human history. Let our true history be a general guide to action, along with concrete analyses of concrete conditions.
It is not every day that a foreign people come from across the Atlantic Ocean and conquer a major continent with the Remington in one hand and the Holy Bible in the other!!! Take the time to think about this historical curse! Talk about instant Karma!
Idea: Let us try to have an online Talking-Circle Chat Tomorow at 10 AM for about a half hour at Pacific Standard Time. We can get a couple then invite others in.
Blessings, Prayers and Warm Thoughts From Aztlan ~
Peta de Aztlan
Re: [Talking-Circle] An easy way to Petition to Members of Congress to vote against a guest worker amnesty bill
"Virginia S." <> wrote:
Gee, I am of two minds about this guy.
On the one hand it provides me with alot of info on the nuance of these idiots and what their "current" way of manipulating people is .  I've learned much of use in my research about the internet desperation of the Powers That Be (PTB) .. how deep into the digital divide issue "they" are willing to go  as the PTB clearly do not like the Far Right ..
On the other hand it takes time to delete all that HATE.
As on other groups I am on indicate these fools merely SPAM and never interact with anyone.
But in this case, this particular SPAM Is offensive as members of this group and those we love and care about might be the very ones who would be affected by such legislation and it shows a very high degree of insensitivity .. to the point of have having DEATH as a result if people if they were expelled.

Norma J F Harrison <> wrote:
Peter - someone needs to get rid of this guy!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: John Perna
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 6:55 AM
Subject: [Talking-Circle] An easy way to Petition to Members of Congress to vote against a guest worker amnesty bill
An easy way to Petition to Members of Congress to vote against a guest worker amnesty bill
Please vote against a guest worker amnesty bill
A Petition to Members of Congress
• Please vote against a guest worker amnesty bill (and any other bill that would legalize the immigration status of illegal aliens already in the U.S.) and also vote against any guest worker bill that legalizes future influxes of illegal aliens!
• Please vote to secure our borders and stop illegal immigration!
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